1992-2010: Chaos... and Valeria
FF357
358
369 373
375
376 390 396
403
406
reborn
return
A-1998 3:8
3:47
3:60
family
500
536
550
558
566
570

Summary: from DeFalco to Millar
The period up to 1991 saw the
Franklinverse take over from the Marvel Universe, replacing a
stretching timescale with a chaotic sliding one. Now in part 2 we
see the Franklinverse slide toward chaos (the Great Reboot of
2010-2025, also known as the Chaos War), and how Franklin looks to
Doom for help. This period begins with the second the run often
considered the second worst in FF history, and ends with the one
that beat it to the top spot. Not everyone feels that way of
course.
DeFalco's run on the Fantastic Four
In "Comic Creators on the Fantastic Four", DeFalco recalls that
long time fans called him "The Evil One." Why so much
hate? This is what long time fans said (on the FF message board):
Personally I would say no there are no good
issues as I've read his entire run.
- Reed and Doom "die"
- Susan dresses like a skank and dates Namor
- Ben gets disfigured by Wolverine
- The Lyja retcon: Johnny's wife turned out to be an
alien spy who fakes a pregnancy and then she lies to
him again and dates him as Laura Green.
- Franklin gets the X-Men treatment and comes back as
a teenager with hound scars and what to me looked like
a case of Phalanx-itis (and why would he be infected
by the transmode virus or be a Hound when he grew up
in Elsewhen? The Hound stuff happened to the Franklin
from the Days of Future Present storyline). Franklin
came back with phalanx-itis who whined about his
parents never loved him (so basically they crammed all
the crappy things about Cyclops kids together and gave
them to Franklin)
- Reed gets a new half-brother (Kristoff) and
half-sister (Huntarra)
- Nathan is annoyingly cryptic the entire time...it's
almost like he's trying to string you along so you
will buy more issues. Nathan was reintroduced as this
manipulative schemer who strung people along with lie
after lie. I think he went to the same masters class
of obfuscation as Mr. Sinister, Jackal, Elim Garak and
Ben Linus.
- Paibok and Devos (Devos really sucked IMO)
- Malice
- The No One Gets Out Alive story...omigod that story
was awful.
- Susan destroys a Celestial
- Hyperstorm (worst character ever...worse than
Onslaught, Cousin Oliver, Jar Jar Binks and Wesley
Crusher combined)
- Sue's powers come from "hyperspace"
- Fantastic Force spin off
- The FF was probably the worst offender at Marvel
when it came to special covers during DeFalco's run.
358, 371, 375, 387, 398, 399, 400. What other title
had foil covers 3 months in a row?
It was just so so bad...but at least the art was
pretty.
DeFalco should never be praised for his Fantastic Four
run. DeFalco's run typifies Marvel at it's absolute
worst. Bad storytelling. Stringing readers along with
dangling plot lines, Special covers, Killing of cast
members to boost sales, angst. Marvel had
it's problems at the time but I would say DeFalco's work
on the FF was way worse than the Crossing and the clone
saga...those disasters just got more attention.
- Reverend Meteor (this combines two posts)
I'd also add very bland, unforgettable attempts at new
villains like the lame Occulus and one of the weirdest
Doom stories ever with Vic selling drugs to Yancy
Streeters. I also got the impression that DeFalco just
didn't like Reed as a character and killed him to get
rid of him.
- Jim Mc
- The most depressing FF era ever. His FF run was
depressing...to me the book has always been a blend of
fun and drama...this was just gloomy. It was like
'Family Ties' had transformed into 'Party of Five'
overnight, just sad.
- Reed and Doom's 'deaths'...okay that WOULD be
depressing yes I'll give him that. You cant kill off
two major characters such as them without tears. I can
understand that impact.
- Ben getting scarred by Wolverine. Unnecessary and
brutal.
- Johnny and all his tribulations [Lyja, getting
jailed, burning down the university etc] bit much for
me but I did like his Torch's dialog. The last time
the Torch ever seemed mature in my opinion.
- Sue...God what was he thinking? I loved Malice but
this was too extreme. No wonder Ryan had to tone down
her costume due to complaints [see his interview].
- Ant-Man and his letching over a bereaved Sue five
minutes after she lost her hubby. .No thank you.
- Namor doing the same. What a letch!
- Lyja. Loved her, miss her, wish she had stayed.
- Hyperstorm...camp gay-dressing villain who wasn't
needed [except as a deux ex machine for Reed and
Doom's return] A piss-poor Onslaught knockoff!
- Nathaniel Richards...as Rev said he never gave a
straight answer. A frustratingly complex character
whose motivations were never fully explained.
- Older Franklin...possibilities but hated the idea
of granddad Nathan kidnapping him and taking him to an
alternate future. Unsavory.
- Huntara...would've liked to have seen more of this
Xena/Red Sonja warrior.
- Paibok...bad Super-Skrull wannabe aint never gonna
be.
- Devos...bad Terminator rip-off. One
word...pointless.
- Sue destroys a Celestial? Really? Sue dear you're
tough but not THAT tough! Even the Watchers would've
had trouble with them. Absurd.
- Sharon. A perfect chance to end her 'journey' with
turning her back human and finally finding some
closure, and what does DeFalco do...make her more
ugly, more bitter.
- NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE...a dreadful doom-laden
depressing storyline which seemed out of sorts with a
previously fun family book like the FF.
- The Dark Raider. Was he one of the evil Reed's from
the COUNCIL OF REED'S? Theres a ret-con story waiting
right there!
One good thing DeFalco does is reply to fans. I wrote
him after he got the Legion gig and he wrote back a very
nice letter, which he did to most fans of that book.
- Karl Disley
|
In defense of DeFalco
On the plus side, a lot of people did enjoy DeFalco's run: mainly
new readers who did not know how the fun stories were either
copying old ideas or damaging long term continuity, and without
the experience to know that if they could not make sense of Nathan
it was not actually their fault. And compared to other comics at
the time, DeFalco's (with Ryan's art) were a breath of fresh air
for new readers. Other titles were often impenetrable.
besides, that, everyone agrees that DeFalco is a really nice guy,
good with fans and fellow workers alike, and most people agree
that Paul Ryan's art was good.
So what went wrong?
After seeing what happened to Englehart and Simonson it will come
as no surprise that DeFalco was operating under horrendous
conditions. But worse than that, he was Editor in Chief at a truly
horrible time. He had to deal with impossible demands from above
and the resulting chaos from below. Read "Marvel Comics: The
Untold Story" for what it was like. DeFalco comes across as quite
the hero, defending the workers from the owners from Hell. DeFalco
had an impossible task and can be forgiven for not giving the
Fantastic Four the attention it deserved.
Take for example the hated "Lyja's baby" story. Paul Ryan (the
artist) explains:
"One problem I faced were late plots. I tried for nearly five
years to get that book ahead of schedule, turning down other
assignments, to no avail. Tom was just too busy with other
projects, not to mention his duties as Editor-in-Chief.
Another was changing plots. A story we discussed and which
I found very exciting was frequently changed when it reached
printed plot stage. I think Tom spent too much time
second-guessing himself. Lyja and Johnny were supposed to
actually have a child. I was shocked and disappointed when Tom
changed the child into an artificial implant housing a monster."
(source)
The pressures and chaos continued to the very last issue of
DeFalco's run. Ryan again:
"The whole Heroes Reborn situation [how the title was rebooted
after FF416] came as an unpleasant surprise to me. I learned
through the Internet that I was losing the FF. Tom and I were
supposed to work together through issue 416. Yes, we were told
to complete our story arc as quickly as possible. The
powers-that-be (executive level management) came up with the
idea of luring Jim Lee back to Marvel in the hopes of recouping
lost sales figures. Jim wanted the FF. Marvel gave it to him
over the head of Editorial. Editorial decided to show that they
also could do an Image style book without Jim Lee. Therefore I
was unceremoniously removed from issues 415 and 416 and they
were given to Carlos Pacheco. This whole situation left a bad
feeling with me toward Marvel. I was cast adrift after 11 years
of loyal exclusivity. I have not followed any of the Marvel
titles since then, so I cannot comment on their merits." (source)
The chaos of the 1990s is legendary. Not even DeFalco's Editor in
Chief job was safe. This was a recent question to Tom Brevoort on
his blog:
"Q I read that during the 90s there was a period in which
there were 5 group editors-in-chief of different lines instead
of one common editor-in-chief. Since you were around at the
time, do you know why they decided to do that and why you think
it failed?"
"A That was done to weaken the authority of any single
Editor in Chief and give the Sales Department the upper hand,
and it failed because it was a moronic idea in the first place."
- Brevoort.
On the bright side...
All of this fits perfectly into the bigger picture of the
Fantastic Four as metaphor for the Cold War. When the cold war
ended the book lost its direction.
Given that the chaos makes sense on the larger scale, the rest of
this page tries to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear: let's
tease out what "was really happening."
357
FF357: Lyja
The first event post Simonson was to get rid of the Alicia
marriage. We are told that Johnny in fact married a Skrull called
Lyja, disguised as Alicia. However, that contradicts the previous
story: it breaks the flow of the 28 year story, it strains
credibility that Reed had no Skrull detectors in the Baxter
Building, and Lyja contradicted Alicia, for example over whether
she was able to create representative sculpture (see the discussion of the different FF)
So what is really happening?
We saw that Franklin reversed stuff and injected new memories in
the dimension hopping of FF326, FF332 and perhaps FF541 or
thereabouts. Alicia's actions triggered Act 5, so Franklin had to
particularly reverse her influence. So it appears that Alicia and
Lyja were switched at one of these later points (i.e. after FF321)
and given new memories. The generally confused state of affairs
explains why the Skrulls were so easy to defeat in FF258.
Note the method, how Franklin changes
things: he simply shunts people into the nearest reality
that has the desired features. There may be highly complex reasons
behind why the new reality is different, but Franklin is not be
involved at that complex level.
358
FF358: the first gimmick cover

The 1990s were a period of desperate variant covers, and the FF led the
field: FF 358 had double covers and a hole, 395 was in a bag with a free
cartoon cell, and 371, 398, 399 and 400 were holographic.And then 416
was he end of the series, ready for the first reboot the next month, and
another reboot the year after. The 1990s had it all.
369
FF369, etc. The different team, and out of character
Sue
The page on differences notes the
contrast between the original team and the clone team we began
following at the end of FF 333. In this and the following issues we see
those differences very clearly. The new Sue does something the original
Sue would never do: she voluntarily merges with Malice. She also forgets
that she can make things invisible. The new Ben, unlike the old Ben in
act 5, is plunged into despair again. He says he does not love Alicia,
in stark contrast to the original Ben in FF 301.
373
FF373, etc. It's all
about Doom
In this period the only consistent theme is Franklin. And the
only consistent part of Franklin's plan is Victor Von Doom. Why do
Franklin's plans generally center on Doom? Because deep down,
Franklin wants two things: safety, and his father's
attention. Both needs are frustrated by one man above
all: Victor Von Doom. So Doom has to be neutralized. All of
this is of course unconscious. Or rather, it's organized by
another version of Franklin: as we saw in FF annual 23, young
Franklin is often unaware of what his other avatars are doing.
It may be helpful to see an outline of Doom's activity in this
period. Note that before this period Doom's quest reached its natural
conclusion in act 5, but then Franklin
panicked and upset everything.
The key to understand Doom is to see him as an extreme version of
Reed. He has Reed's arrogance multiplied, but he also shows how
Reed should put his family first. Doom at his best cares deeply
for his people. He is at his strongest with his people behind him.
Indeed, the name "doom" comes
from the word for "home" - the same root as "domos" or
"domestic." We see Doom as the ultimate selfish individual, but he
is also the ultimate family man. All his motivation comes from his
early family ties, his love for his parents, and his desire to
create a better world where nobody will ever suffer again. Doom
more than anybody understands how we can rule through others:
through his son, through Kristoff, or ultimately through Valeria.
Doom's lowest point was when he neglected Latveria in the early
1970s, and his greatest defeat was when he opposed his son in
FF200. In the Franklinverse period we see him "adopt" a daughter
(Valeria) and she will be his salvation.
Here's a summary of Doom's actions from the
start of the Franklinverse to The
Great Reboot.
1989
The original plan was to keep Doom busy with an equal and opposite
Doom. This was the climax to the original 28 year story: Byrne's
plan for a year of Doom Wars, and Englehart's climax in FF annual
20.
1991
The retirement plan didn't work. Franklin was to scared to let
Reed explore his powers, so Reed had nowhere to go... and returned
to the team. A new, different
Doom then appeared and defeated the Kristoff Doom. Why? We
can piece together the clues. new Doom said he's been away for a
very long time, and had a new costume. But that costume was only
very recently obtained in Otherplace (according to one of the
Captain Britain titles). Otherplace is the closest thing we have
to a representation of Franklin's internal world, and here time
breaks down so it's quite possible that this Doom believed he had
been away for a very long time. Why would Franklin unconsciously
create a stronger Doom? The next few years give us the answer.
1997
Franklin's new strategy seems to be to focus on Doom's nobility.
We saw in the original 28 year story that Doom is at his best when
caring for his people. Franklin arranges the universe so that Doom
has a whole world to care for (the Heroes reborn world).
2000-2002
Here we see the secret to Franklin's plan: Doom has always cared
for his family, so the obvious solution is to make the Fantastic
Four part of his family. Franklin does this by making Valeria his
child: at first literally, then symbolically. (This period as
usual involves shunting between different times and realities.)
2003: hell
It all goes horribly wrong. The particular alternate reality Doom
used here turns out to be particularly vicious. So the next
attempt will begin by checking out all the other alternate reality
Dooms.
2005: Reed rules Latveria
Franklin's efforts to unite Reed and Doom continue as Reed takes
over Latveria, but of course it doesn't end well.
2006: Doom tries to lift Thor's
hammer
Franklin's belief in Doom's basic goodness must be strong:
the Doom that returns from Hell does not want the super-evil human
skin costume, and even tries to life lift Thor's hammer, but of
course he isn't worthy (FF537). This is after Doom and Reed to
battle it out in Manhattan (FF535). Franklin no doubt wants them
to come to some conclusion, but they never do.
2007: Doom warns of a future
Reed
In FF551-3 we see where Reed's desire to fix everything leads - to
a future where he controls everything, just like Doom. By the end
of the arc we are assured this is a Good Thing, but Hickman's
later Council of Reeds story suggests otherwise. The story ends
with Doom being sent off to rule an entire world - suggesting that
his rule really is benign. The bottom line is that Reed and Doom
are so similar that Franklin's unconscious instinct is correct:
solving one problem means solving the other.
2009: Doom's rehabilitation
continues
In the "Master of Doom" arc Doom appears like an angel compared
with his old boss. But these are both alternate reality versions
(the real Doom would never kneel before another) indicating that
the dimensions that Franklin was supposed to guard are falling
apart and being consumed.
2009-2011
The key to this long story is "All hope lies in Doom." Older
Franklin is part of a plan in which the new, nobler Doom will
merge with Reed Richards. Valeria is central to the plan of
course. Doom is brought on the side of the team in the final great
push that marks the start of the Chaos War.
A future version of this page will examine the parallels between
the Chaos War and Jonathan Hickman's run.
FF356-416: danger to mutants, and parallel worlds (1990-1996)
Marvel's major crossover events may be a guide to Franklin's
unconscious fears and actions.
Franklin seems to respond to pressure by creating or accessing
parallel worlds and parallel beings, but these usually end up even
worse than before.1990-91 saw "The X-Tinction Agenda" and the
Infinity Gauntlet: increasing danger to the world, and especially
mutants like Franklin. This led to parallel versions of the heroes
(in the 1992 Infinity War) and a parallel version of Earth with a
demonic invasion (the 1993 Mys-Tech war). Note the presence of Death's Head.
Another feature of these crossovers is dystopian futures (e.g.
Days of Future Present) and conflict between fathers and sons. In
Age of Apocalypse (1995–1996) Legion kills his father, Charles
Xavier, creating a dystopian alternative time line in which
Apocalypse rules the world.
These cross overs reflect the real world of course. Marvel
sought to maximize revenue by linking everything together ever
more tightly: but some Marvel titles were a lot less realistic
than others, and forcing them together on a regular basis ended
any claim to believability.
375
FF375, etc: Franklin can't cope (1992-1993)
All of this responsibility is too much for one mind.

376
FF376: he's about to destroy everything
In his desperate state Franklin is about to destroy everything.
For the universe to survive he has to be taken out of this crazy
mess (and just read Marvel comics 1991-1994 to see what a crazy
mess it had become).

390
FF390: all is explained: Franklin is guardian of the time stream
When he gets back we see he spent his time bouncing between the
time streams, fighting alongside his grandfather.

What was he doing? Trying to protect the time streams (and
apparently failing). The key points are in FF390:
The key points are:
- Nathanial and Reed's sister are "guardians of the sacred time
stream." We see elsewhere that Franklin is the uber-powerful
one.
- They are based somewhere called "Elsewhen" - a place that
sounds suspiciously like Otherplace.
- This is a family affair: grandpa Nathanial is behind it
all, aunt Huntara works with Franklin, and the ultimate
enemy is....
- Susan Storm, at first. But then we look closer and it's
really...
- Malice (Susan's dark mental doppelganger). Who then
controls...
- Franklin himself. Meanwhile they appear to be always
fighting...
- Nathaniel Richards. While saying that their real enemy is
the Dark Raider,.
- Reed Richards of another reality. And his goal is the
eradication of...
- all the Reed Richardses of all realities.
It may look like a confusing mess, but step back and it's really
quite simple:
- Reed wants power. Franklin wants safety.
Everything stems from this conflict:
- Reed's ideas put the universe at risk. E.g. by rescuing
Galactus who then (FF338) almost destroyed the universe. Reed
also saves the universe. There are different Reeds in parallel
realities, some so more good than harm, others do more harm than
good. It is hard to tell the long term results, but sometimes
one Reed will try to eliminate other Reeds for the good of the
universe (as they see it). The same thing happened in Hickman's
run (from FF570).
- Malice is a result of Susan's frustration at being controlled
and held back by Reed. Franklin feels the same frustration.
- Nathaniel partly wants the same as Reed, and partly recognizes
the danger.
- This conflict can only be resolved when Reed puts Franklin
first: so that Reed gets the risk that he wants (by studying one
of the most dangerous and powerful beings in the universe) and
Franklin gets the safety he wants (more control over his awesome
power).
- Franklin sees his family in constant danger so naturally wants
to protect them.
- But Franklin lacks Reed's intellectual abilities, so his
attempts to fix the time lines usually make things worse.
The only solution is of course for Reed to put Franklin first: then
Reed gets access to Franklin's power and Franklin gets access to
Reed's intelligence. They'd make a great father-[son team. But
teamwork and social relationships are always Reed's weakest points.
He's a terrible father and has a terrible relationship with his own
father. That's the real story.
The universe reflects Franklin (1989-present)
This is the "pathetic fallacy," an old Shakespearean theme (and
far older than Shakespeare: e.g. Arthurian legend and ancient
kingship): the state of a nation, and even nature itself, reflects
the quality of its ruler. We see this in the Fantastic Four and
the wider Marvel Universe in this time. Franklin continually fails
to protect his family, seeing alternate reality versions of his
parents frequently killed (and sometimes a parallel world Franklin
dies). Meanwhile Reed and Sue argue and the team falls apart. In
other comics everything is dark and full of personal conflict,
especially among mutants (Franklin is a mutant).
396
FF396: comics are being replace by cartoons

Some time around the 1990s the typical fan was more likely to think of
the Fantastic Four as a cartoon than as a comic. Just as these days
people see them as movies (if Google searches are any guide). Paper
comics, lefd by gimmicks, with sales starting to fall dramatically, were
less and less important. The first season of the 1994 FF cartoon is
generally regarded as being
of poor quality (the second season was better). The timing of And Man's
comment was no accident: two issue earlier (FF 394) was a poly-bagged
gimmick comic that tried to promote the new cartoon. This page
reportedly
caused some trouble for the writer, Tom DeFalco. With sales starting to
plummet we must not mock the
toys and cartoons!

403
FF403: Franklin's realities are breaking up
The "Fantastic Force" comic records Franklin's attempt, and
failure, to be a successful teenage superhero. At one point we see
multiple versions of himself, a point confirmed in the main comic
(FF403). Franklin is unable to keep everything together. He's
desperate, miserable, his powers are going haywire, something is
going to break..

406
FF406-413: Hyperstorm
The chaos reaches a peak: Franklin unconsciously unleashes
everything he's got. He creates a son who is a living conduit to
hyperspace, just as Franklin is a living conduit to the negative
zone (see annual 1998). The two powers are pretty closely related actually.


All the stories from this period build to this point. Nathaniel is
trying to protect his family. But like Reed (and we now learn, like
Franklin) he is not a very good parent.

Unable to cope with reality, in FF413 Franklin de-ages again in
order to hide from reality. He cannot cope, he cannot consciously
facing the chaos he has unleashed.
Onslaught
Do not be confused by the apparently different nature of
Hyperstorm and Onslaught. Step back and you will see it all as
manifestations of the Franklin's power. The pressure in Franklin's
head is so great that if you stop one unlimited danger
(Hyperstorm) then another is there to replace it (Onslaught). As
for how Xavier and Magneto relate to Franklin, that would require
several more pages! But basically it all comes down to Phoenix.
V2
FF volume 2: Heroes Reborn (1996-97)
Heroes Reborn is the clearest and best known example of Franklin
controlling everything.
Franklin creates a pocket universe where all Marvel comic stories
live, with him pulling the strings. The same year sees two of the
more interesting fractured universes: the 2099 dystopia (featuring
the team from 1996) and Amalgam's "Challengers of the Fantastic."
Franklin is trying everything and seeing what sticks.
When the Heroes Reborn experiment fails and the teams return to
our reality, we once again see signs of a merge with Limbo.
Compare the demonic effects of "The Ruined" with the merging with
Limbo in FF322.

"The Return" issue 1: Why Franklin matters (1997)
The end of Heroes Reborn (called Heroes Return) finally clarifies
why superheroes exist and why Franklin matters. Ashema, a
Celestial, explains to Franklin:
"We conduct experiments, too.
And one of them was on this world as life developed. But
we have accomplished all we have set out to do. To make
you, Franklin. Or someone like you."
For details, see the page on the origin,
on the cosmic, and the commentary to
FF319. The Celestial then continues
"And now it is time to wipe off the petri dish."
This can be seen as another test: Franklin and co. should be able
to pass that test, and they do. Later she says:
"This
is how we knew that humanity had reached its pinnacle in
you. You have created Life. You produced something
from nothing"
But creating life is never simple, as Franklin discovers. The
whole point of life is that you don't control it.
Franklin must come first. Sue understands but Reed does not.
V3
FF volume 3: the fractured universe (1997 and after)
With continuity broken there was nothing to do except tell the
same stories again and again in different ways. So the original
universe fractured into many parallel universes: Ultimate FF,
Heroes Reborn, Marvel Adventures, 1603, 2099, Zombies, Apes,
Manga, Amalgam, etc., etc.
In the Franklinverse the main title routinely forgets its past:
all the themes of the first 28 years are forgotten, along with
most of the characterization. Any unpopular story is instantly
forgotten, such as Mark Millar's million year old Dr Doom fighting
a giant shark with his bare hands: nobody mentions that. With
continuity such a low priority the canonical status of different
titles is ambiguous. For example, is Marvel Knights in continuity
or not? Fans disagree.
Pier Four
To symbolize the chaos, change and division, the team briefly
move to a new location: Pier Four, on the Hudson River, just above
Stuyvesant High School. Later they return to a rebuilt Baxter
Building. For more about the Baxter Building see issue 3.
A98
Annual 1998: they know their time is screwed up
The Franklinverse is vaguely aware that they are not the original
characters, or if they are then somebody is messing with their
heads. In the 1998 Fantastic Four annual the post-continuity Ben
visits an alternate reality: the Real Time FF. The story shows
what would have happened if real time had continued as it did in the 1960s.
Sure enough, Reed and Sue are in "retirement" but doing exciting
things, and they're always ready to return when needed. And the
team in led by Johnny, who's married to Crystal, and Franklin and
Luna are part of the family.

This isn't exactly the same as the new FF discussed on this
page: the 1998 FF diverged from our continuity in 1973. In this
version Ben never got over his insecurity, and as a result he
never married Alicia. So Johnny never fully matured, and is still
emotionally a teenager, but in most other ways this is a fair
approximation to what the future would hold if Fantastic Four
continuity had continued. It's also a fan favorite, based on
comments on the comicboards forum. And when Tom Brevoort was
asked which never reprinted comic was the best, his reply was "Dan
Slott would say Fantastic Four Annual 1998."
The hugely underrated Karl Kesel
Incidentally, Karl Kesel wrote the 1998 annual. He also wrote the
much loved issue where we see the Thing and his Jewish roots
(volume 3, 56). And he wrote the first five issues of Fantastic
Four 2099 until he and the rest of the team resigned on a point of
honor. If Marvel wants a good established comics writer to take on
the FF they could do a lot worse than Kesel. According
to all the interviews I've seen he would love the job. He's a
pretty good artist as well. (He's also a
fantastic human being, adopting a baby who was addicted to
heroin and selling his comics to pay the medical bills, but that's
a little off topic.)
Discussions on the FF message board indicate that long term fans
usually rate him their first choice as a new writer. But for some
reason The Powers That Be will only ever give him the occasional
issue (such as writing dialog for Matt Fraction's last four
issues) and then only use him as an inker. Nobody knows why.
3:8
FF 3:8-34: a brief return of the original team?
(Claremont's run, 1998-2000)
For a couple of years Franklin sees to have been hopeful.
Franklin seems almost happy, and for this brief period the original team seem to
return.
Why the team returns
They original team seems to appear when Franklin powers the team
up in volume 3 issue 8. Why was Franklin suddenly hopeful? He gets
to save his family, and then gets himself a dimension jumping
friend (Puppy) and a dimension jumping (or "time dancing") sister,
Valeria. Note that Valeria's age (13) is very close to her real
time age (the apparent miscarriage was in 1984, and Valeria
appears in 1999).
Why the team disappears again
Franklin seems to have engineered a chaos storm (unconsciously).
It builds over many issues. It's the kind of event that can reboot
a universe, and only Franklin can save it. This is the perfect
opportunity for Reed to admit his limitations, focus on Franklin,
and have a great bonding moment where Franklin assumes his
rightful place in the team. But instead, once again, Reed fails
spectacularly. In issue 24 he sends Franklin away!!!!!!! The one
being who could have saved them!
The Chaos storm is caused by the dreaming Celestial seen in
Simonson's run: yes, this is seems to be part of that chaos war. It is
finally resolved by Reed and Doom working together. This was
presumably Franklin's plan all along: the friendlier Doom was how
Valeria appeared, but without Franklin being present the merging
of Reed and Doom fails. (As with the Kristoff method in
annual 20, this could have ended the Doom problem forever.) With
the strategy failed, and Franklin not present, the original team
cannot stay. We see multiple versions of the team in issue 34 and
it appears that the comic ends up following the wrong team again.
In issue 35 the Franklinverse team
are back.
Not everyone liked Chris Claremont's run
Claremont arrived almost by accident, so his first issues can be
forgiven for being a little rough:
"It’s clear that Claremont and Larocca’s arrival wasn’t
particularly planned – Lobdell had previously stated an
intention to stay on board the title for a 50-issue run, and his
plots were used for two issues following his departure.
Claremont, for his sins, had recently returned to Marvel to work
as an “editorial director”, and was presumably just in the right
place at the right time to take over at short notice when
relations between Marvel and Lobdell/Davis broke down, for
whatever reason." (Bronze Tiger, on the FF message board)
The main criticism of Claremont's run is it was too much like the
X-men. As one fan wrote, "Alyssa Moy could be Psylocke, Caledonia
from Excaliber, Valeria could be Rachel". People who do not like
Excaliber generally do not like Claremont's run. But in his
defense it was probably the best established way to make sense of
the crazy parallel realities that sprang up since FF322, when
Franklin went haywire. Excaliber specialize in such things.
Claremont is also blamed for reintroducing Valeria, which is
probably unfair. Most people quite like his teen Val, but the
later de-aged Val is so toxic that to some fans anybody connected
with the character is stained. For the record, the most hated part
of the character is her absurd intelligence,a creation of
Mark Millar (who else?): "Millar threw this wrinkle into the
book during his much loathed run and Hickman chose to nurture it
without analyzing the concept. It's ridiculous. Much like
million year old Doom battling mortality with the strength of
hate.. it's a poorly conceived and pathetic concept.. MM's short
attention spanned trademark." - Karl Disley
Another plus is that Claremont's books take more than five
minutes to read. Whatever else can be said, you get your money's
worth, and that's a rare thing these days.
Franklin has another idea: the Sentry (2000)
Was the Sentry Franklin
Richards? That would explain a lot. This would be a way for
Franklin to gain the respect of his father, and thus get his
attention, and so be let into the team as a full member
as Reed promised but never delivered. But Reed doesn't seem
to pick up on the clues that the sentry is Franklin, and the
experiment fails, so Sentry finally gives up his desire to live.
Also in 2000, Apocalypse emerges once more, along with a
mysterious prophecy of 12 powerful mutants capable of destroying
him. One of them is of course Franklin.
3:47
FF 3:47-49: Another big reboot: Abraxas (2002)
The Franklinverse is based on zero changes, and so it cannot work
(stories imply change: no change means no story). The
Franklinverse periodically falls apart into continuity chaos: the
different worlds merge, the major powers get involved (Galactus
level and above). 2001 is a good example. Other examples were
1989-91, 1996, and the mother of all reboots, 2010-2025.

Unlike the DC comic reboots these are claimed to be the same
people with the same history, so officially nothing has changed.
But like in FF344 we must look closely to see the differences. Make no mistake,
these are major events that reboot the entire Marvel Universe, and
Franklin is the one who hits the reset button each time. In the
1991 reset we see Franklin's role very clearly, and even see
Franklin inside his own "elsewhere" world.

The Abraxas story ends with a reboot, and Valeria is born. Ah
yes, Valeria. On the surface this is just bad writing - take a
moving and well told story (how Sue lost a baby) and ruin it, then
make the baby the most irritating child ever. But look below the
surface: there is logic to this. All is not as it seems...
2002-2013: Valeria: what's that
all about?

Sue had a miscarriage in FF267. That child was later born
as Valeria, and claims to have been raised by Dr Doom,
married to Sue. Here's a brief time line:
- FF250: Reed abandons his son and sets off to die in
the negative zone.
- FF254: Val is conceived in the Negative Zone. Val will
one day become Reed's salvation from despair.
- FF266: Sue has radiation sickness that threatens the
child. This can probably be traced to Reed taking Sue to
the negative zone. There are no events that indicate
Franklin's direct involvement: this is all due to Reed.
- FF267: Franklin, guided by Roma (see below) removes
the unborn child before she dies.
- FF volume 3, 15: Valeria is seen as daughter of Sue
and Reed-Doom. Valeria Von Doom later appeared in the
main time line by suddenly materializing in the
Fantastic Four's headquarters, professing to be from the
future, as well as being the daughter of Doctor Doom
(Victor Von Doom) and the Invisible Woman.
- #3 24 they send Franklin away (Valeria supposed to go
with him but stays behind)
- #3 25 Doom is back. While defeating the dreaming
Celestial (an obvious reflection of Franklin) Reed and
Doom merge. Doom's spirit sent to limbo.
- #3 26 Val leaves to be with Franklin in "Haven" - safe
house at end of universe. She later comes back.
Dimension hopping seems to come easily to her, though
not as easily as to Franklin.
- #3 49: the big Ultimate Nullifier Abraxas reboot. The
Val and Franklin combo was well known even then.
Franklin revealed that Roma had taught him for an
unknown period of time and that Valeria and himself
would be needed in resurrecting Galactus. They did, and
the reboot returns Sue to her pregnancy before FF267.
- Once again the pregnancy is difficult. This time Doom
steps in to help, putting the family first. This
establishes a permanent link between Doom and Valeria.
- When Valeria is three years old Doom unexpectedly
loses half of his mind. The Ovoid mind saving trick
seems to have kicked in, automatically transferring some
of it to Valerie. Valeria now has the combined intellect
and cunning of Reed and Doom (see below).
- As part of the Great
Reboot, future Franklin returns and impresses on
Val that "all hope lies in Doom."
- Doom helps the family. In the Great Reboot story that
climaxes in FF600 Future Franklin and Future Valeria
save the universe.
- Chronologically we should then expect Reed, in his
Doom form, to raise young Valeria until she is teen
aged.
- Marvel Now Fantastic Four 7: Valeria and Franklin are
familiar faces as the end of the universe.
About saving the unborn child
For details of how Franklin saved the child, and its effect on the overall story, see the notes by FF267.
Roma
Roma is a daughter of Merlyn, a guardian of the time
lines, on Otherworld. Otherworld is Avalon, the place
first introduced in FF54 with Prester John. Merlyn
created the Captain Britain Corps. Merilyn claimed to be
Merlin: and so did many others. Merlin was so deeply
entwined with higher powers that he bordered on the
abstract, so it is to be
expected that he would have multiple incarnations.
Roma took over control of Otherworld. Note the parallels
between Otherworld and Otherplace, where Franklin was
raised to be himself a guardian of the time lines. Links are to be expected
when dealing with higher dimensions: they are probably
aspects of the same place. The whole concept of "place"
has a different meaning to pan dimensional beings who can
easily step from one to another.
In FF volume 3:6-8, Roma kidnapped Franklin Richards,
thinking he was too powerful to stay on Earth and with his
family. Johnny Storm was later able to convince her
otherwise.
Religion
Note the religious imagery throughout these arcs. As the
early Christians noted, Roma (Rome) is Amor (love)
reversed. Abraxas is the spirit or concept (archon) that
rules all the 365 heavens, according to the Gnostics. The
Gnostics may have been the original Christians, depending
on your view of Valentinus and Marcion, and whether you
consider their enemies Irenaeus and Tertullian to be
uninfluenced by their desire for power. But that is a
whole other topic.
The old and new Valeria
- When baby Valeria was born, Reed was trapped
elsewhere. Johnny had no choice but to get Victor to
help deliver the baby. He named her and made her his
"familiar" - a mind linked to his.
- Recall that Doom is still presumably linked to Reed i
some way that perhaps neither of them realize. When a
Celestial links two beings they stay linked.
- The next great event is where Doom apparently kills
his former lover, the first Valeria (in FF #3 67, the
run up to FF500). He does this in order to gain the help
of demons for his larger goals. On the surface this
looks like Doom's lowest point: he admits failure,
renounces science, and behaves dishonorably:

- After this, young Valeria gradually becomes more
intelligent and (fans say) evil. Are these events
linked?
Valerie as "Maleria" - what's really happening?
At the time of writing (summer 2013) there is a great
mystery: how is Valeria so smart and ruthless? And why
does Reed follow her? The situation is so obnoxious that
long term fans routinely refer to Valeria as Maleria, the
demon child. CyberCoyote sums it up: "is Val basically the brains
of the outfit now? Did the disease [Valeria] affect
Reed's reasoning ability? He's just following her cues
like a humble servant with no insight of his own." Karl
Disley expands on this theme:
"I couldn't stand the outrageous way she spoke to her
father like that... Considering everything SHE'S done in
the past, she is a fine one to talk.
- The whole '3'
storyline involving Johnny's death and the Council Of
Reeds coming to our Earth virtually came about because
of her meddling
- [she goes] to DOOM
of all people for help."
Jim Mc concludes:
"Yeah, Reed defers to Valeria and follows her
around like the student learning from the master."
So Valeria is acting like Doom, and Reed accepts it. On
one level Reed is finally putting his children first. He
got to that stage in Act 5, but that was reversed after
FF322. Is he now trying again, but going too far? Or is
something else going on? One constant theme of the
Franklinverse is that Reed keeps secrets, most notably in
Civil War, the Council of Reeds, the journey into space
("Marvel Now"s first year), and so on. Perhaps the
greatest secret is that Reed knows what Doom is doing, and
both know the role played by Valeria.
Doom transferred part of
his mind to Val?
Some time before FF583 Doom lost part of his mind. This
may refer to events in the comic series Doomwar, or
perhaps to the lobotomizing procedures that the council of
Reeds performed on every Doom they could find.
Normally when Doom sees he is about to be seriously
damaged he mind swaps with somebody (e.g. in FF260). In
this case something went wrong: perhaps he was caught
unprepared. However, he has a permanent mind link with
Valeria (surely nobody seriously
thinks Reed could remove that). A serious brain injury,
with no opportunity to mind link with somebody nearby,
would automatically trigger an attempt to mind swap with
his familiar, Valeria.
At this point (in Mark Millar's run) Valeria mysteriously
became more intelligent and more cunning. Also Reed became
more open to the idea of being led by Val. Recall that
Reed and Doom are already linked from the days when the
Celestial combined them and Reed wore the armor.
When Val and Doom plan together they both act like this
is a new idea. But they are both very good at keeping
secrets and playing the long game. The take home message
at this point is that "All hope lies in Doom." Doom then
starts to fight on the side of the team.

Old Valeria transferred
to young Valeria?
Finally we have the problem of Doom killing his old
lover, the first Valeria. That story appears to create
three problems:
- Why did Doom let the demons dictate terms? Doom is
nobody's servant. He let them take something he wanted,
and that's not like Doom. Wouldn't he find a way to come
out on top?
- Why did he kill his one true love? He's never shown
that level of one dimensional evil before.
- Why did his Valeria look so old? As if her life was
already drained from her?
There is also the question - not a problem, but an odd
thing nonetheless - of why Doom wanted Sue's child to be
named Valeria. If it was just about ego then why not name
her Victoria (the female version of Victor, his own name)?
Jim Mc suggests a solution: Doom was mystically draining
young Valeria's life force into young Valeria. That's why
old Val looked so old, and why Doom was willing to go
through with it - he knew he would win in the end. Doom
could have been planning to trick the demons for a long
time, since before young Val's birth. |
FF3:60 Mark Waid and the 9 cent issue
Mark Waid's first issue cost just 9 cents (a response to DC's 10 cent
issues) so it sold in big numbers. It cemented Waid's view of the FF as
about family. Let's look at that idea for a minute.
3:60
Is the FF really about family?
The Hell story was the centerpiece of Mark Waid's popular
run on the title. This was when Franklin and Valeria began
to look almost like normal kids in a normal family. So maybe
it's time to talk about family. In recent years it has
become normal to talk about the FF as being "about family."
But that was not true in the 1960s and 1970s. In fact, you
could argue the opposite:
"It’s sometimes forgotten that the Fantastic
Four, for example, often functioned not as a symbol of the
family so much of that as the institution’s decline. Reed
was often cast as the absent, disconnected company-man
father, Sue Storm the bored, frustrated and romantically
tempted housewife. Ben Grimm was the fractious, demanding
intruder from the extended family, and Johnny Storm the
rebellious, alienated youth who put his own ill-considered
desires before the communities’ best interest. In its
time, this was a fundamental break with how the family was
portrayed in the super-book, although in truth the family
had rarely been represented at all in the sub-genre." (source)
And of course Sue and Johnny lived elsewhere and commuted in
for the first four years, before the wedding. And after that
the idea of the best friend and kid brother sharing the
marital home is not the narrow definition of the nuclear
family. This team is extremely close, sure, but does that
mean it should be "about family?" The title sold far more
copies back when it was about "incredible exploits and down
to earth realism", the definition
of success from FF9.
"About family": a bad idea?
Here are some comments from the FF board:
[Valeria] and Franklin, by their existence, turn
Reed and Sue into parents. Duh, right? But I don't
want Reed and Sue to be parents. I just don't have any
interest in reading stories about parenting. I'm a
parent. I have two daughters. I have never wanted to
watch TV shows or movies, or read novels or comic
books, focused on the family dynamic. Family sitcoms?
I run screaming.
I actually cringe when Marvel writers trot out their
obligatory motto, "The FF is about family." Blecch.
Before the kids, these four heroes were FRIENDS. Yes,
Reed and Sue were lovers and eventually spouses. Yes,
Sue and Johnny are siblings. But Ben and Johnny are
friends. Ben and Sue are friends. Ben and Reed are
friends.
Moreover, since Sue and Johnny join Reed in missions
of dire jeopardy, they are his fellow adventurers, and
this is a bond of deepest friendship.
Friendship is the emotional heart of most great
adventure tales. The Three Musketeers. Robin Hood and
his Merry Men. The Knights of the Round Table. The
Lord of the Rings. Harry Potter. Star Wars. Star Trek.
Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos. The Silver Age
World's Finest pairing of Superman and Batman (and
Robin).
I often think in terms of C.S. Lewis's "Four Loves,"
one of which is Friendship, which he describes as
being primarily a side by side relationship. Cue the
old song, "Side by Side." I think this is important.
It directly impacts the storytelling.
Families tend to look inward. The relationships are
more face to face than side by side. They're more
about responding to one another's practical and
emotional needs, than about doing together the things
that define our spirits. My daughters and I are highly
responsive to one another's practical and emotional
needs. (They're adults.) But neither of my daughters
would ever pick up a comic book, or a book on
philosophy or science, things that define me. Our
relationships are face to face, not side by side.
They're inward-looking, insular.
Friendship is outward-looking. The universe beckons
with its particular adventures, and friends line up
shoulder to shoulder and leap together into the quest
for knowledge, or pleasure, or justice. Friendship
propels them out of the nest, out into the wild
forest, where the good things are, and the bad things
too.
A comic that is "about family" will tend to be
inward-looking. Insular. A comic that is about
friendship, by contrast, will be outward-looking.
Exploratory.
Here is what I want Marvel writers to say: "The FF
is about friendship and exploration." The storytelling
will be different then. The exploration won't seem
like Reed's hobby that the others humor because they
know he needs to do it, and join him in because they
know he needs them or he might die. Rather, the
exploration will be the thing that binds them as
friends. You see, Ben is an explorer too. Johnny is an
explorer. Sue is an explorer. It isn't just Reed. It's
all four of them. They all have adventure lust. They
all want to seek out new life and new civilizations.
All four of them - not just Reed - if stripped of
their powers and dropped into Roddenberry's imagined
universe, would enter Starfleet Academy. All four of
them - not just Reed - if stripped of their powers and
dropped into George Lucas's imagined universe, would
be traders out on the fringes of the galaxy, risking
their necks in the cold vacuum between worlds and
stars, doing commerce with beings bizarre and brazen.
It isn't just Reed. It's all four of them.
Did we want Han and Luke to be chasing toddlers? Did
we want Kirk and Spock to be worrying about
babysitters? That's what Franklin and Valeria do to
the comic. But they do worse. They make Marvel writers
think in terms of family, instead of friendship and
exploration. They make Marvel writers think inwardly
instead of outwardly, and think of exploration as
Reed's hobby, instead of the life's blood of a mutual
fourfold friendship, and the thing that no member of
the quartet would willingly give up.
But sure, Valeria, in and of herself, represents an
interesting concept.
- Bronze Tiger
"About family": too difficult to do right?
The children are [an] acid test [for] how well one
can keep Fantastic Four focused on THE F4, not have it
be 'The F4 and Children and/or Friends" to the point
of absolute nausea. And just as Claremont failed the
test with his slight barrage of unnecessary new
supporting characters AND especially the introduction
of Valeria, Hickman failed it too with his completing
the die for the children to play tag-along on nearly
all of the F4's adventures.
- Miss Fantastic
I think a lot of writers had that same thought.
After Franklin's birth, he's really not seen that much
when Stan and Jack were still doing the FF. Later
writers dealt with it by putting him in a coma or just
kind of ignoring the domestic scenes with a quick
panel showing Alicia or someone stepping in as a
babysitter and then he was not seen for the rest of
the story.
More recently, Claremont shipped Valeria Von Doom
and Franklin off to Roma in Haven during the Reed in
Doom armor arc. They stayed there until late in the
Pacheco/Loeb/Marin run. I think the horse is really
out of the barn now that they've taken in so many kids
now as part of the Future Foundation.
- Iron Maiden
Yeah I've always hated Franklin for much the same
reason. One thing in particular that always annoys me
is how Ben gets reduced to this asexual nanny for
Reed's brats and he comes off as this pathetic guy who
clings to Reed's family. Or how everyone is Franklin's
honorary uncle or aunt. For some reason Franklin
calling Sharon Aunt Shary after barely knowing her
really irked me.
I know no one else but me would like this but I kind
of wish Ben and Johnny would get wives and become
parents so the world doesn't have to revolve around
Reed, Sue and their children.
I don't think I dislike the idea of family dynamics
in fiction...I just don't like this one because I
can't stand Franklin or how Ben seems like his nanny
half the time.
- Reverend Meteor
"About family": destroys Ben Grimm as a character?
If this is a family then Ben, the touch guy adult, become a child.
"Spoderman" on the FF message board made the following observations
THE THING represents the
oppression of the straight male at the hands of feminists (Sue) nerds
(Reed) and effeminate guys (Johnny). Think about it! The THING has been
neutered by reed and sue by making him the nanny for their kids which is
a feminine role and it also means that hes not allowed to be scary
anymore because he has to be kid friendly! That's why hes so goofy and
corny now because he's basically a kiddie hero but they took away
everything that made him a bad ass! in the old days he was violent and
you had no idea what he was gonna do next! Maybe he'd save your life or
maybe he'd snap your neck or bash your skull in for talking s*** about
him! Now he's so tame that no-one's afraid of him anymore which is why
he gets no respect and people make fun of him all the time for being a
big ugly freak made of rock! They know they can get away with making fun
of him because he's not allowed to hurt anyone anymore!
Also no-one else wants to
mention it but the thing was LITERALLY neutered by reed's experiments
too! he not only lost his good looks but he lost his manhood too so now
hes like a Ken doll! thats not a coincidence! Ben Grimm was a bad ass
war hero and a playboy who used to get all the girls... hes a perfect
example of old school masculinity and then he gets literally castrated
by a nerd! and then if thats not enough he gets forced into a submissive
feminine role by Susan the feminist who made him babysit her kids like a
teenage girl! It's the perfect metaphor for how nerds and feminists
ruined masculinity!
As a male feminist I would maybe temper that a little. I can quite see
how this is how Ben feels. (Or at least the clone Ben - see FF 226-333).
There is evidence that the original Ben was old fashioned in his views
(e.g. see Liddleville, in FF 236). And while there is no proof he is
physically neutered, I think he was afraid of hurting Alicia, so it had
the same effect. (Once Sharon appeared he didn't hold back, and appeared
much more relaxed after.) The Franklinverse Ben seems to be a
babysitter Ben, more suited to Franklin's insecurity. "Spoderman"
continues:
The 1990s zeitgeist?
The Thing is a perfect example of
an old school alpha male who's been neutered and castrated and
feminized and forced to be submissive all thanks to Reed the nerd and
Sue the feminist! And Johnny is a metrosexual pretty boy hipster who's
rewarded for being feminine instead of punished for it because of how
everything has flipped! It used to be up to girls to impress men but now
it's the opposite because the media says that ugly women need to be
respected too but only guys who look pretty and take care of themselves
can get girls anymore! Now the only option for straight men is to either
be a feminine pretty boy like Johnny or to be sexless like Ben! Before
you know it guys will be the ones who have to start wearing makeup
instead of girls!
Again I hesitate to go that far, but plenty of people feel that way. The Great American novel always reflects and exaggerates the zeitgeist, so maybe there is some value in this interpretation. And I certainly agree with "Spoderman"'s solution:
How to fix The Thing
If [Ben] was still a bad ass he'd
be out there going on adventures with franklin and teaching him how to
be a real man not sitting on the couch and watching kiddie cartoons! He
should be the kind of uncle who throws them into the pool to teach them
to swim and leaves them out into the forest to teach them to survive in
the wild! Hell, it'd make the kids a lot more interesting too if they
were going out and getting into trouble instead of just sitting at home
and being a burden for the adults! [Sitting at home just creates boring
stories!] The problem isn't that the thing cares about the kids or
watches them it's that he's become too kid friendly and it cost his
edge! People see him as a lovable teddy bear or a corny goofball or a
sad sack but they never see him as a threat anymore! He seems too
harmless now! He's too SAFE!
The only way to fix the
thing is to make him DANGEROUS again! And change the way he looks too
because he's too smooth and round and safe looking like a fat old
grandma and change his color too bc bright orange makes him look like a
toy! He should be black and red like molten lava and make him lean and
buff so u can see his muscles under his rock hard skin! He should look
like he's ready to lunge at you any second!
OK, maybe I wouldn't go quite that far, but I think he has a point.
Franklin nees to go on dangerous adventures and Ben should be his
dangerous uncle. No danger means no story.
Solutions to the problem:
Three families - the Clan Fantastic?
At the height of the classic era (circa FF50-60), the
greatest stories were written around three separate
sub-teams: Johnny/Wyatt/Lockjaw, Reed/Sue/Ben, and the
Inhumans. A three sub team book could work again:
You know, a Clan Fantastic could work for me. Reed
and Sue living in some cool place somewhere. Ben and,
I don't know, Namora, living in some other cool place.
(Wouldn't it be fun to have Ben and Namor be cousins
in law?) Johnny and, I don't know, Venus, living in
another cool place. (Notice how I've cleverly tied the
FF to the Agents of Atlas?) All three places connected
by some sort of teleportation technology. Jimmy Woo,
the Atlas Foundation, the Uranian, and of course
Gorilla Man, would all be connected to this, because
everything cool should eventually find its way to the
FF mythos, if it didn't originate there in the first
place, and quite often it did. Come on, we all want to
see Reed and the Uranian interact, and Ben and Gorilla
Man. More importantly, I think we would all be very
pleased (eventually if not initially) if Jeff Parker
were to take over the writing on the Fantastic Four.
Setting aside the details of the above, I think the
driving principle, that of a Clan Fantastic, with
three places of residence and three marriages, is
excellent.
- Bronze Tiger
Several sub teams also allows flexibility for one or more
person to leave without really leaving. This solves the "OMG
Reed and Sue cannot leave!" problem of FF307, and also
provides the flexibility that keeps the X-Men and Avengers
selling more copies than the FF. Marvel Editors? Is anybody
listening?
Kids running wild - an old style family?
As for what to do about Frank and Val, here is my own
view. This is from the previous discussion, and fits best
into a "Clan Fantastic" model.
The problem: family is good because they have extra
closeness. But family is bad because, unlike friends
who face outwards, families face inwards to protect
the kids. Protecting each other is boring. That makes
it hard to write good parent and child adventure
stories. So Marvel is afraid of characters growing up,
and any kids just hang around being annoying. Worst of
all possible worlds.
I wonder if the problem is not the family, but the
modern version of the family?
Think of the Greek gods and heroes: they often had
kids. Think of Biblical epics, or even Tarzan:
everyone had kids. The difference is that the kids
were kicked out at the earliest opportunity and the
parents continued living as they did when dating. Kids
were not wrapped in cotton wool. Parents did not see
it as their duty to protect kids - they were too busy
living their lives. As soon as a kid was three or four
years old they were outside all day with the bigger
kids.
I'm not saying that was right, but it's how families
worked until (say) the second world war. Also there
was more respect: maybe less love (beating kids was
normal), but kids would see their parents DOING stuff
and want to grow up to be like them. Contrast that
with today, when kids see parents take safe jobs and
say "don't do this" and nobody wants to be like a
parent. It was a different world back in the day.
For a story with parents and children to work, I
think it has to go back to the old style. Parents and
kids must live separate lives. Kids must be out on the
street as young as possible.
Look at Harry Potter for example: he is exactly the
age that Marvel does not want Frank to become, and it
works because he goes off and does his own thing. And
Harry Potter's parents are cool because he so seldom
sees them (only in flashback or in that special mirror
really). Being parents does not stop them being cool!
They just have to not have contact with their kids.
Contrive some reason.
Or look at Jack Kirby's childhood: running with the
street gangs. There is no way a Kirby would live in
the Baxter Building and go to school! Kirby was not
afraid of old characters with gray hair (Reed
Richards, Red Ghost, pretty much everybody else),
because he did not see kids as hanging around being
boring.
Look at Dickens, or Enid Blyton, or Richmal
Crompton, or any popular author before 1960: kids were
always on the streets having adventures and parents
barely figured at all. Roald Dahl understood it
perfectly: the parents in his books were either evil
(in which case the kids were on the streets) or loving
but encouraged danger and freedom (in which case the
kids were on the streets). Every great childrens'
author gets the kids out on the street and into real
danger as young as possible.
Now look at the Fantastic Four for comparison.
Franklin spent his early childhood away at a nanny's
house, or the rest of his time being protected. The
other kids just tag along or go to school. Boring
boring boring! It makes the kids boring! It makes the
parents boring! Yes I know that in real life it's good
for parents to be safe and protective and spend time
with children, but this should be an adventure!
Franklin should have some spunk, he should be scaling
down the Baxter walls at night and discovering the
world! The kids should be kidnapped, and make their
own escape because the older guys are too busy with
their own disaster (and for gosh sakes scale back
Reed's tech so he cannot find the kids to easily)!
Whatever happened to adventure? To danger?
And another thing. Drama needs conflict. All the
great child heroes have conflict with parents. Either
parents are evil, or too strict, or have their own
dangers and need to be saved. Do not under any
circumstances make the relationship safe. And for the
love of all that's holy, don't manufacture some bratty
whiny spoiled kid fake teenage conflict or two
dimensional villain parent. Make the conflicts real,
so we can totally see both points of view. Treat
parents and children exactly the same as you treat any
other single person: don't let their relationships
define them, their relationships and ages should give
them fascinating extra layers but otherwise be
ignored. Kids should never be stupid and adults should
never be boring.
And one more thing. About Bronze Tiger's point about
looking forward in the same direction. Totally agree!
A fifty year story like the FF should be an epic. Like
Greek myths or Japanese historical dramas or the
Bible: each generation can defy the previous one and
carve its own niche, while respecting the previous
generation and earning its own place in the hall of
heroes. Youth will typically rebel, leave for their
own adventures, and later come back to discover that
their parents also rebelled when young, and so the
cycle of life continues.
In my opinion safe kids at home make the worst
possible adventure story. I'm with Bronze Tiger: let
the team get married and live in separate times, and
meet every day via teleportation. Let them have kids.
But for the love of all that's holy, don't keep the
kids at home a second longer than necessary, give them
personalities, give them danger, give them conflict
with parents, make them fun.
In short, Reed and Franklin should be like Odysseus
and Telemachus. Having a child does not make you a
stay at home parent, having a child means double the
adventures. And if they don't see each other for ten
years, that's fine!
At least that's how I see it. Franklin is more than
three years old so he's big enough for some terrible
tragedy to force him on his own to have his own
adventures. He needs to escape, and not in some safe
Tattletale way, he should have stowed away on a pirate
ship and found and used an abandoned gun by age eight.
What's holding him back?
- me
|
Doom and Reed: all part of the plan to unite them?
- Doom is Reed's mirror. he shows his arrogance more clearly,
but also cares more for his family. If Reed could adopt
this aspect of Doom then Franklin could safely grow up and the
Franklinverse could become realistic again.
- It appears that in the future (or one future) they will merge
somehow: In volume 3:15, Susan Richards appeared from "an
alternate future" as the Baroness Von Doom, with her children
Franklin and Valeria.
- We then see how it would happen. Mister Fantastic became
trapped in Doom's armor, and as Doom he re-married Sue, making
her his baroness shortly after. The armor makes Reed think like
Doom.

Combining Reed and Doom was an act of the Dreaming Celestial (an
obvious parallel to Franklin who unconsciously controls
everything). Doom was thrown into another limbo-like dimension.
Doom and Reed are now like the Hulk and Banner, or Captain
Marvel and Rick Jones: one exists in reality and the other is in
limbo.
- Celestials know what they are doing. So this will not be a
temporary thing. Reed and Doom will always be linked, even
though Doom will of course find a way back, just as the Hulk
periodically separates from Banner but they are still the same
person deep down.
- Doom meanwhile has a close link with Valeria. He is gradually
becoming becoming friends with Reed, though his conscious
rivalry and pride would never let him admit this.
- Reed, as Doom, is fated to raise Valeria in Otherworld. Why
would he need the Doom armor there? The obvious answer is that
Otherworld is a magical place. Reed has trouble with magic, but
Doom does not. Wearing Doom's armor helps Reed to think like
Doom. It also commands respect from the people of other worlds.
- What will happen to Doom is he carries on down this road? He
has shown his willingness to live through others (mind swapping,
or with his son, or Kristoff, or Valeria). With part of his
consciousness permanently anchored to this world through Valeria
he is free to safely move on to the next life and finally see
his mother again - and perhaps beg forgiveness of his lost love,
his own Valeria. This would be a powerful, moving story.
- Does this mean no more evil Doctor Doom in the comics? OF
course not. Multiple Dooms exist: different reality versions and
doom-bots, each convinced that it is the original, and each able
to change history as needed. Another Doom will take over and
insist that the one who became friends with Richards was an
impostor. And so the cycle continues.
- So this is the true secret history of Doom!
500
FF500: Hell (2003)
The Valeria and Doom arc leads to Franklin being in Hell. But we
have seen before (in Byrne's run, or annual 20) that Mephisto is
scared of Franklin: how could any version of Hell keep him?
Clearly Franklin at this point is miserable so is in his own private
hell: when rescued he still saw himself as there.
But there is another purpose in him going through Hell. Franklin
is an unconscious messiah. Like his grandfather and namesake, he
may sacrifice himself for his family: by letting himself suffer in
hell he eventually places Doom there, and also lets Doom see that
he has harmed an innocent. This forces Doom to reevaluate his own
failures in hell. Doom as a slave, not a master. This is an
essential step in Doom's recovery.
536
FF536: Civil War - why Reed acted like a jerk (2006)
At this point Reed is routinely keeping secrets,which prevents
Sue from moderating his crazier ideas. Saving Ben from heaven
would have given Reed's inflated ego one push too far. It is also
possible that the machine he used, originally intended to take a
man to hell and back, affected his mind for the worse. He may have
been especially susceptible after wearing Doom's armor for so
long. Another possibility is that he was simply outmaneuvered by
Tony Stark, a man with far more skill in manipulating people to
think his way. Either way Reed reversed his previous position
against registration (from 1991) and made his worst decisions for
years, building a prison for innocent people, creating a Thor
close who killed people, an generally alienating his entire
family. He and Sue had to take a second honeymoon after in an
effort to fix things. It seems to have worked, as Reed in
Hickman's run (FF570 and on) was beginning to be a little less
crazy. Though only a little.
How the descent to chaos played out in Franklin's conscious life
Do not be deceived by the sometimes relaxed surface stories. Many
stories at this time seem to be ordinary and not cosmic - most of
Waid's run for example. This is because these events are so big
that they can barely be comprehended: like bubbles carried on a
great tsunami, the bubbles are barely aware of the movement until
it all crashes, and even then the individual bubbles are
relatively calm: they only see glimpses of what goes on under the
surface. But we can see its effects on Franklin's conscious life:
2005: Franklin is almost taken
into government care
Reed's neglect of his children is attracting the attention of the
government, and they try to take Franklin and Valeria into care.
Reed of course believes that he is a good parent, and he is right
that the government would do an even worse job, but the fact
remains that Reed never keeps his promise to examine Franklin's
power, and instead puts dampeners on it wherever possible and puts
Franklin in constant danger. The last time Franklin was trapped in
hell, for example, was directly because Reed never bothered to pay
attention to Valeria's powers either (thus allowing a particularly
evil version of Doom to attack).
2006: and it gets worse
The one thing Franklin hates more than anything is when his
parents fight. And in Civil War they almost separate (the split
becomes obvious in FF538). Whatever Franklin is trying, it
isn't working. Then Reed becomes more Doom-like than ever,
imprisoning heroes in a purpose built negative zone jail. Why?
Because of a psycho-history theory that this is this will be the
least-worst future. When will Reed ever learn? If he wants to
understand psychology, or the future, or power, or the negative
zone, he should ask his own
son!!!
550
FF550: the universe is dying (2007)
FF550 is a story about the sick universe needing surgery. This is
all part of the pattern leading up to the Chaos War, as foretold
way back in 1990. As usual the team appear to solve everything,
and as usual we can be sure that a problem that big will not be so
easily solved, despite appearances.

558
F558: the final descent into chaos (2008)
In Mark Millar's 16 issues we see the Fantastic Four at their
worst, Completely out of character, with nothing making
sense:
- The original Ben was always defined by his courage, so this
one literally begs for his life.
- The original Johnny was defined by his need to be a hero, so
this one dates a super villain (not a maybe-reformed villain, an
active super villain).
- The original Doom was defined by his need to be number one, so
in this run he kneels before another.
- The original team was defined by realism, so this one becomes
absurd. Reed does not just create a new invention, he creates a
new planet Earth. The death and funeral of the Invisible Woman
is quick even by revolving door of death standards. The most
memorable nonsense of all is Doom surviving for a million years
fueled by his hatred, and defeating gigantic prehistoric sharks
with his bare hands.
Clearly these are alternate reality versions of the team:
parallel dimensions are merging, ready for the Chaos War. The
alternative reality (for so he must be) Master of Doom has been
traveling through alternate realities, killing whole universes
(and parallel Fantastic Four teams).This is just what
Franklin, as guardian of the sacred time lines, was supposed
to stop. As the
blogger Caleb summarizes: "It all comes down to our FF and a
few allies trying to hold off armies of infinite, alternate
universe versions of themselves while also dealing with a guy who
seems like the biggest Big Bad they’ve ever battled."And the final
battle is a big car crash of alternate realities - note the
dinosaur Captain America!

Once again the team defeats the immediate temporary threat,
but the cross-dimensional carnage expands and reaches its
climax into Hickman's run.
566
FF566: The final step in humbling Doom: the Master of Doom arc (2009)
In the pantheon of fan horrors the only crime worse than Reed
following bratty Valeria was Doom following anybody. This took
place in the Mark Millar "master of Doom" arc. In it, Doom's never
before heard of master appears and Doom kneels. This is
unthinkable for normal Doom, but his recent activity shows he has
become unhinged. He realizes he has failed, but can barely admit
it to himself. In Mark Waid's run Doom admitted failure and tried
to renounce science. He ended up in Hell. He then lost his mind.
He is, in fact, repeating Reed's breakdown from Act 4.
- Reed realized he had failed, and tried a desperate new start
in FF232. Doom did so by renouncing science and killing his
childhood sweetheart.
- Reed then ended up in Hell (see the symbolism of FF251). So
did Doom.
- Reed then lost his mind (in FF254). So did Doom.
- Reed was then humble (in FF295).. So is Doom. But he can never
admit it.
- Reed then snapped back from humility. So did Doom,. But under
the surface the wheels are turning.
As for Doom following nobody, the irony is that magic involves
precisely that: following higher powers. Doom of course sees it as
using them, but they
will see it differently. Higher powers are all linked: the
abstract concept of destruction, seen by Doom as a death like
master, is of course the concept seen by others as Galactus. See the cosmic page for details.
But Doom's view of destruction is far more personal, loving power
for its own sake whereas Galactus is neutral.
Note that the Master of Doom arc is the last chaotic moment
before the Great Reboot begins. At this moment of colliding
dimensions and falling apart it is impossible to separate reality
from illusion The masters of Doom routinely used illusion, and
nobody seriously believes that Doom really survived a million
years on hate alone, then gained powers he never used again It's a
swirling soup of chaos: see below. The cosmic page notes that
nothing a destructive higher power does can be taken on face
value. Note also that Galactus is the servant of Franklin, in the
sense that destruction is a servant of desire. This is all part of
a bigger story, though since the end of Act 5 and the decent into
the Franklinverse that bigger story is never obvious on the
surface.
The Marquis of death
The master of Doom and his sidekick are two versions Clyde
Wyncham, best known for the "1985" series. That was about a real
world comic reader who brings in fictional villains to his world
and almost destroys it. IT symbolizes the triumph of escapism, the
retreat from reality that took place as Jim Shooter was pushed out
in the mid 1980s.
"During the fight
[with Doom], the Marquis and his apprentice created an illusion in
which Doom, allied with nearly every hero and villain on Earth,
managed to defeat them by imprisoning them in the "Omega Box". For
the next five years following their imprisonment, Doom led the
world into a new golden age and was married to the Invisible
Woman, with whom he was expecting a child. When Sue asked him if
he was finally happy, Doom responded that he had never been
happier. It was then that "Sue" revealed herself to be the
apprentice. The Marquis then stepped out of the Omega Box and
revealed to Doom that less than five seconds had actually passed.
The Marquis then explained to Doom that by showing him the
"perfect life" would make his defeat much more painful. The
Marquis then sent out a massive blast of energy, wiping out
Latveria's entire capital city and the rest of the country. The
Marquis then turned Doom's heart into stone and his blood into
acid and had his apprentice to open a time-rift into the Pliocene
Age, where he tossed the dying Doom into a primordial ocean, where
he appeared to have been consumed by a Megalodon. [...] It was
then that his apprentice revealed himself to be Victor Von Doom,
having survived his apparent death because of his intense hatred
and spent the last several million years mastering the Black Arts
as well as many other God-like abilities, transforming his body
until not even a molecule remained that could betray his identity
to the Marquis when he became his apprentice in preparation for
the day when he could finally get revenge on him. Upon learning
who his "new" apprentice actually was, the Marquis begged for Doom
to spare him but Doom told him to be silent and then swiftly ended
his life."
When asked about "million year old Doom," editor Tom Brevoort (on
his Formspring account) simply noted that Doom tells lies.
Clearly this is largely illusion and chaos, but it reflects a
reality: Doom will indeed finally achieve happiness by merging
with the family, where Reed (as Doom) is married to Sue, the
Baroness, and raises Valeria in Otherplace. Is this creepy, Doom
being somehow inside Reed? No, because Doom's deepest wish has
always been power. As we see in
the cosmic page, when on becomes powerful enough, one
becomes merged with the infinite, almost an abstract concept. By
embracing the light Doom will finally get what he wants, absolute
power, a perfect world, and even union with the family of Sue.
Doom as the Marquis, yearning for Sue, is also symbolic. Ultimate
power to destroy means becoming a reflection of Galactus. The
futility of this win-lose approach to life is represented by Sue,
who has always taught win-win. It was the Sue lookalike, Alicia,
who first defeated Galactus, by inspiring the surfer to better
things.
In the final analysis, Mark Millar's final arc was a sea of chaos
and colliding realities, but it represented an underlying truth.
For twenty years the Franklinverse had been falling apart, and
finally it disintegrated completely. It was 2009, time to prepare
for The Great Reboot.
570
2009: FF 570, "solve everything" (2009)
Jonathan Hickman's run began with FF570. Reed Richards decides to
"solve everything." Next we'll see how everything is solved.